Big Sexy Fat Liberation

Hi, welcome to big sexy. chat I'm Chrystal I'm MERF we're just two rad fatties sitting around chewing in the fat twice a month. We'll be chatting all about current events, hot topics, sex, sex toys, relationships, Scott politics, cannabis CBD, you name it. We're gonna talk about we're really excited to have you part of our community.

Welcome and enjoy. Hey there. Welcome to big sexy chat. My name is Chrystal and I have this lovely co-host over here. Go ahead and introduce yourself. Hi, it's Merf. Hi, me and our correspondent. Lovely, lovely correspondent. Hello, I'm Sid. And we have the most amazing guests tonight to help us with fat liberation month.

Hi, I'm Tigress. I'm the chair of NAAFA the national association to advance fat acceptance. Wonderful. Thanks everybody for being here tonight. I'm so excited that there is such thing as a fat liberation month. It's about damn time and it's a 31 day month too, right? Yeah, my birthday's in February. So I'm very aware of these things.

and also that's, that's the month of a that's black history month too, which is also the fucking shortest month  of course. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Anyway. Okay. Fat liberation month. So today we're gonna talk a little bit about what it is that we all find that we love about fat liberation and fat acceptance. And we'll start with humor.

Oh man. There's so many things that just impact my entire life when it comes to fat acceptance and fat liberation. And I, I think that I'm most grateful for the diversity. I've really been able to expand my worldview and expand my, um, opinions about beauty and culture and just so many things because of the fat liberation and fat acceptance movements.

And. That really comes to so many different ways of, of filtering through the, the impact that it's had on my mental health and my physical health. Um, you know, I, I really struggled, um, growing up, you know, liking my body and I'm sure this is the same kind of story for so many people. Um, but getting to a point where I was feeling like, you know, I didn't like who I was or didn't like my body.

And, um, it took a lot of work, but it really was about exploring and learning about the fat community and that I have the same rights as, um, a, a normal quote unquote sized person. Um, and it really, it changed my life. And I, I'm excited that there's a whole month dedicated to learning about fat bodies and, um, increasing awareness around political movements.

I mean, we still have a long ways to go in, um, having our culture. Really accept fat people in the workplace in, um, just all, all the different types of areas that there's so much that is marginalized when it comes to fat bodies. And so it, it's nice to have this concept of, we're not only going to, um, talk about it and raise awareness, but we're gonna celebrate it.

And so that's, that's really, what's important to me. How about you Sydney? You know, I come at this from a, a very different position in that. Um, so. When I was young, I was slim bodied. I didn't become a fat person until I was like 21 after I had, um, a partial hysterectomy and all the hormonal love that comes with that.

But I had this amazing fat mom who carried herself in this manner of nothing but grace and just, she glided into a room with, I mean, so much amazing her. I, it never even occurred to me as a younger person. That fat liberation was a necessity. Cuz as far as I could see the, the fat wait minute in my world were already liberated and carrying it through.

Once I became a fat person, I was like, wait, hold the damn phone. What is going on around here? How come I am not accepted for the body that I'm in? So fat liberation for me now is more about making sure that I carry on one, the legacy of the women that brought me up and two, that I make sure that that translates and, and pushes through for all of the other fat bodies that are, uh, feeling marginalized.

Cause I refuse to carry this on forever. There's no need for any of us to feel marginalized in our bodies because of our bodies. Can I interrupt for a second? Absolutely. I wanna share this book and I got to know this woman through Tigress, but you both mentioned marginalized. And so this book is called fat girls in black bodies creating her own communities.

And I, it was such a great book and I highly recommend everybody, but um, yeah. Dr. Joy Cox wrote this and. I know, you know, I know you you're fat and you're black mm-hmm  so I know there's even more layers there. So anyway, I just wanna recommend that book and I think you've already read it, right. Um, Sydney has too.

Yeah. Great book. So that's all I wanted to say. Do you have anything else to say about what you're, what that liberation has done for you? Not really. Other than I just, I just wanna make sure that this is something that we, one day no longer need, cuz it's just the norm for our fat bodies to be well accepted.

Well, we have been around for an eternity  yeah.  Uhhuh fat bodies have always existed. We've always had babies, all those things that they say you can't do when you're fat. So yeah. What about you tigers? Let's hear from you, you chair of NAAFA, which is very important organization as far as, um, helping to keep track of the history of the fat liberation and fat underground and all that good stuff.

Right. So NAAFA is, um, recognized as the first organized and documented fat rights organization. There were fat social organizations before, like there were these fat men social clubs in, uh, in New York, in the early 19 hundreds. And there were people, you know, socializing together, or certainly there were fat people around their kitchen tables together, you know, living, grouping in community and living their best lives in all kinds of ways.

And also there's a lot of, you know, fat leadership in other kinds of social justice movements in particular, the black Americans, civil rights movement with a lot of leadership from black women and fems. And, um, but you know, but the first time that there's like an organization, a national organization that's named and chartered and all of those kinds of things is NAAFA in 1969.

So yeah, so we are, um, we are, uh, You know, historically significant in that way. And we hope to be significant in contemporary ways, by being a much more intersectional organization than NAAFA historically was. Um, and by, you know, being across generational organization and a gen and an organization for all genders and for all races and for all of the fat people, um, all over the us and with support and love and, you know, working together with fat people in, you know, in other places all over the globe.

And so for me, fat liberation, um, you know, I've been involved with NAAFA for about 10 years. I started by producing a fashion show at one of NAAFA's conventions and then eventually joined the board. And then last year became the board chair. And since I've become the board chair, I get asked to talk about the meaning of fat liberation and fat liberation history a lot.

Um, And, you know, I've been doing this kind of work since I, I used to run a plus size nightclub event in Oakland, California as, um, it was Chrystal and sing. No, I think Merf knows. And, um, and so, you know, I started that event in 2008, so I've been sort of a public figure, at least on some level since then.

And back then I used, um, the, the terms, you know, fat acceptance and size acceptance. And of course, NAAFA has the word acceptance in our name. Um, and you know, acceptance is the sort of like the minimal level, right? We just want people to accept like fat people exist and that's natural and stop pretending like it's not right.

But then in increasing beyond that, in terms of freedom and respect for fat people, um, I started using the term fat liberation. When I started learning more about the fat liberation manifesto that was written by the, um, the women in the fat underground in the early 1970s. And so that's a document that's really easy to find online.

Um, just Google fat liberation manifesto. There's also a historic YouTube video available, which I believe was discovered by Dr. Charlotte Cooper. Who's also written a book about fat activism. Um, and I think. You know, it's, it's like, it's, it's a list of demands for how we should be treated in the, this culture.

And what's important about it to me as a foundational document and as a, a thing that helps me make a distinction between fat liberation as a personal issue and fat liberation as a systemic issue is that all of those points are about the systemic pieces. They are about how the medical establishment treats us about how the Medi, how the, um, media treats us, how the diet industry treats us, like all of those kinds of things.

And boldly says we demand, you know, all of the rights under the us constitution that everyone else gets. Um, and so for me, fat liberation is really about focusing in, on some of those political and systemic issues that affect fat people. Cuz like I want people to be nice to me when I take my fat self out into the world.

Right. Um, I want people to be nice to me because I don't wanna have bad day  right. But I also. Want to be able to use a public bathroom that is big enough for me and have a seat at the table that is big enough for me and have clothing that, um, that is big enough for me and have, um, And, and have the same opportunities in my job regardless of my size and have medical treatment that is accessible to me.

Like, so all of those things, all of the things beyond do I look in the mirror and feel good about my fat self. I want that. And I want that for everybody. Um, but I also, even on a day, when I look in the mirror and I don't feel good about my fat self, um, or I feel neutral about my fat self, I wanna know that I'm not gonna not get a promotion at my job just because of my size or that I'm not gonna be, you know, denied seating on public transportation or have to pay twice as much for an airline to get like all of those things.

So fat liberation to me is about equal access. It's not just about equal respect. It's about equal access and equal treatment under the law. In addition to all the other fun and community oriented things, you said something that really struck a nerve with me, which is. We are not asking for anything special or extra.

We just want the bare minimum of exactly what other people get. I'm not asking for anything crazily, um, exaggerated. I just wanna be, I want to have dignity and respect and I wanna be treated with dignity and respect no matter what my body size is. So that just kind of hit me cause I'm like, we're not asking for anything extra what what's can't why can't we just have the same baseline as everybody else?

Well, I think, you know, I had an interesting conversation with someone recently. Um, I think it was Sally Smith, who is, who was the executive director of NAAFA in the nineties and has been involved in fat liberation movement in all kinds of different organizations and, and ways for many, many years. And we were talking about how the average American does not understand the difference between equality and equity.

And that sometimes having exactly the same thing as somebody else is not what creates fairness. Sometimes we do need accommodations. I don't need the same chair as somebody else. I need a bigger chair. Right. I, um, you know, I, I don't need the same amount of space on an airline. I, I need more space. That doesn't mean that I'm getting more than my fair share.

If we are sharing, then you don't need all this extra space you're not using that I could be using. Um, and I do, so why am I not able to use it? Right. So, um, Sally and I were talking about there's this, there's this famous image that circulates around the internet, that sort of like, um, three people trying to watch a baseball game over a fence, you know?

And, and they all have the same size of box to stand on to look over the fence. Right? So part, so the first step is getting everybody a box that helps them be able to stand to see over the fence, but then also. When we do that, there are still people who are not gonna be able to see over the fence, cuz they're in a wheelchair.

They can't roll up on the box or the box is, has a 200 pound weight capacity. And I, I don't know about y'all, but I can't get on that box. Right. So I wish I could see the face that Sydney is making out there in podcast land. Um, but like, so, so the first step is the sort of like lining up some boxes, more people can see over the fence.

Um, but also then the, like the next step, the fat liberation step is how do we just remove that fence? We need that fence in the first place. Can we all just watch the ball game? Right. And so, yeah. Can we all just watch the ball game and can we think about that intersectionally so that if it works for one fat person, but still doesn't work for all the rest of, if the, if the ball field is segregated, Then doesn't matter if all the, the, you know, if some of the fat people can go to that ball game, but everybody else can't for some reason, other than they're fat.

Right. So we have to work intersectionally around all of these things, if we're gonna make sure that all the fat people are free, man. Oh man. Oh man. Can we just get some snaps fall of that right there? Cause true. Yes. I, the minute you started talking about the difference between equity and equality, I immediately that image, that meme popped into my head and yeah, I'm tired of having the same size box as everybody else.

Can we get one that accommodates my 300 plus ass? Okay. I, I, can I get seats that fit my wide ass? Can I get things that aren't gonna keep me from enjoying all the same things that everybody else's enjoys, but simply because you know, the world only wants to accommodate narrow. NA booties are great, but a narrow booty seat is not going to fit me.

And therefore I cannot enjoy the show. This the fat liberation movement is so very much paralleled in so many ways to black liberation, movement, Asian, so on and so forth. Everybody who is oppressed and I'm sick of being oppressed. We need to move this on and I'm so loving what NASA does in order to help that alone.

It, it, that is a moving it. That thrills me. I wanted to just add and you're right. Uh, RIS and I appreciate your sort of enhancing what I said. The one thing that I like to also share, as often as I can, is fat people do not take on the guilt or whatever it is that you're feeling the internalized fat phobia, because Southwest all airlines made their seats.

17 inches wide.  they do not. Don't it's not your fault that your butts figure it's their fault that they tried to cram 9,000 people into an airplane. So go ahead, tigers. Well, and on that particular note, um, the federal aviation, um, association, is that what the third a is the federal aviation organization from the federal government, um, is having an open comment period where you can, um, give your feedback about what you think about airline seating and airline seat sizes.

So I encourage you all to do that. We'll be putting something on the NASA blog soon about, you know, where you can find that. But if you just Google FAA comment, period, you'll be able to find it. Yes, I've already submitted my thoughts on that matter. And my basic, uh, uh, dimension requirements for general folk, that would be a 24 inch wide seat.

Y'all I'm just saying thank you  but like, if I go to the pharmacy and I need to sit down while I wait for my prescription for an hour, I mean to me, that's like the most basic thing. They should have somewhere for me to sit and people that are larger than me to sit. And I'm just asking for, I feel like that's equitable because I need these things and it's not my fault that they, that there's nowhere to sit.

It's their fault that they don't accommodate all bodies. It would be so simple. They just have a bunch of chairs there with no arms, for example, but a lot of people take it inside and they're like, oh, I don't wanna bother Southwest airlines. I know they'll gimme a free seat, but I don't wanna no, no, no, none of that's your fault.

It's it's the airlines or the pharmacy or Kaiser. Whoever's not making seats for everybody. You know, don't take that on. Don't take don't intern.  well, and on the airline note, you know, for, for your listeners that don't know, Southwest is actually the best airline in the world in terms of accommodations  cause they have a customer of size policy that allows you to request a second seat.

As long as there are empty seats on the plane, they'll give you the second seat for free. If you wanna guarantee a second seat without having to show up and gamble that there are empty seats, you can purchase a second seat and then you can request a refund for that second seat and they will give it to you.

So, um, but you know, but this is where fat liberation movement comes in, right? Because people know the story of Southwest developing that airline policy as a story that is all about director Kevin Smith got shamed on an airplane for being too big. And in the early days of Twitter started tweeting that and it looks really one of the early examples of utilizing Twitter that way.

And that's a really important part of the story, but also. It NAAFA members were protesting at lax when that was happening and bringing additional media to that. Um, and me, other people in fat liberation had been working on, you know, other kinds of, uh, car, automobile, seat belts, campaigns, and other kinds of, you know, and in Canada they have a, um, a one passenger, one seat regulation that allows people or one like one passenger, one fair that allows people to get a doctor's certification, that they are a certain size.

Seems like I could just opt in as a certain size, but, um, but they require a doctor's certification and then you get, you know, your second seat without having to pay extra for it. And that's the interesting, an interesting thing about this issue that comes up all the time of like our fat people being fair is that when places try to create policies that will make things accessible for fat bodies, four disabled bodies, four elders, whatever.

Actually, a lot of the unfairness that we're worried about is people who don't need those things, trying to use them just to be, you know, just to have more space or just be more comfortable or have the chair they like or whatever. So it's not actually. All of us who are already marginalized, that, that are selfishly using more than our resources.

It's actually like, it's hard for organizations and businesses and institutions to create some of this accessibility because you put in the bench seating so that you have it available for larger people. And then here comes the dude, just man spreading in the seat, you know, or whatever. Right? So it's actually some of the equity and equality issues that come out about around fairness and, and space issues, um, you know, sometimes have to do with that.

But we also like there really in fat liberation month, we really want to focus a lot on celebrating fat people, highlighting people who are doing amazing things and spending time in community so that we're fortified and, you know, like, and that we can support each other. Um, and also. We need that fortification for the fight, because anti-fat shows up in everything.

It is a racial justice issue because black and brown folks are disproportionately impacted by anti-fat. It is a gender ju justice issue, both in terms of how, um, CIS women and, and non-binary folks who present as women get judged around fatness in things like workplace interactions and stuff. But also in terms of things like if you are, um, if you are a trans person or a non-binary person who wants to have some kind of gender affirmation surgery, your BMI can prevent you from having that.

So it's a gender justice issue in that way. You know, there are. Uh, like there it's, it's an immigration issue in terms of like part of how we see who is fit to be a legal immigrant to this country. It's a, it's a criminal justice issue, both in terms of how police rate, larger people, especially larger dark skinned people and larger dark skin.

Um, people of all genders, even though we hear those stories most about masculine and men folks, but. It's also a criminal justice issue in terms of things. Like if we think we wanna have, you know, um, humane incarceration, but we put really fat people in really tiny jail beds or like what there's all, every area of life that you can think of.

There is something that has to do with anti-fat and the need to combat anti-fat. And so part of we, what we also wanna do is make sure that people understand that that fat liberation movement is not just about like, do you like your big old booty or , you know? Right.  or, you know, or can you get the dress that you wanna wear?

Can you like, did somebody make a joke about you on TV without being chastised for, or like it's it it's those elements are important. Those interpersonal elements are important. But the systemic issues are really important and the systemic issues are the place where the bigger you get, the more it impacts you.

True. True Merfy. You were gonna say something earlier. Yeah, I, I'm kind of like I'm caught between a couple of things because I, I really, I really think that, you know, a part of a part of this is like, there's so many straight size folks or smaller folks that just don't, I don't, I don't know if they, they're not really just aware that this is impacting so many people of size or if it's, I don't care that this is happening to so many people of size or if it's just, you know, capitalism of like, oh, well it costs more to do blah, blah, blah.

So I, I just have all these mixed feelings and thoughts about, you know, It's so pervasive. It there's just so many things that have to be addressed and have to be critically looked at. And we don't as a culture, really value that. And I, I think that's really seen with fat people because it's openly okay.

To dislike fat people as a, you know, general society term, you know? Um, I think that's part of the reason why, um, as Tigress mentioned, the, I would love to see us focus a whole lot more on the celebratory nature of fat liberation because they've proven folks in general in society have proven time and time again, that they just don't care about our, our trauma stories.

They do not care. So you know what I'm gonna influence how I can.  um, with celebrating my fat body, all fat bodies, what our fat bodies are able to do, go be have so on and so forth. Because it's clear that folk don't care about our trauma. They do not care. Otherwise we'd see more change than has been. Go ahead, tigers.

I, I think also that, you know, to your point, MERF about, um, straight size folks, uh, which is like the fashion term for people who are not fat right. And, and smaller fat folks. I, I think it's also true that a lot of fat people of all sizes don't realize how many social justice implications there are to anti fatness until they start to experience them.

So even if you are a larger fat person, you might be dealing with some access issues and you might be dealing with some, you know, seating and clothing and all of those kinds of things. Um, and you know, until you need surgery, you don't think about the surgical BMI cutoff, right. Or the anesthesia BMI cutoff or whatever.

And so, um, and you know, if you, the, the more. Um, kinds of marginalizations you have, because of your own identities, the more likely you are to see some of those other intersections. Um, but also it's, it's hard sometimes to know if you are a multiply marginalized person, is this anti-feminist or is this anti-blackness or is this, this person just hate women or does it like, it's hard to know that sometimes.

Um, but they're actually what we are finding at NAAFA is that the more we do outreach with other social justice organizations to help them understand that the things you're already working on anti-fat is part of that. This is not, we don't have to take attention away from racism in order to deal with anti-fat cuz anti-fat is part of racism.

We don't have to take attention away from LGBTQ rights to, um, to, you know, because anti-fat is part of the, like all in all of those areas. Right? And so, um, so what happens is as fat people start to see that. We demand liberation more when, when we have, um, not been exposed to positive images like Sydney said, or to people who ha run up against those barriers and just, and are mad about it, versus people who run up against those barriers, the, the cultural narrative is run up against that barrier decide you should lose weight so that you can go around the barrier, right?

So when you start to be exposed to more people who run up against the barrier and go, fuck this, how do we knock this barrier down? You start to think about how you can knock the barrier down. True. That. So let me share with you what fat liberation and fat acceptance has done for me. And we're not talking about body positivity.

Of course, it's body positive, but we're talking about fat liberation, meaning, you know, Not just people who have a hourglass figure. For example, we know those are very celebrated, even if they're fat embodied positivity, but in fat liberation means everyone, every single person, every size, there's no limit.

It's 100% inclusive. And I came to that by joining this community because I did have some internalized good fatty, bad fatty stuff, you know? Well, yeah, I'm healthy. So, and I'm fat, but you know, so I'm good, but you know, that person is unhealthy and fat and that's bad. I had to, I had to let go of that shit, but I got that from our fat community.

I got that from people like Tigress and Reagan and Marilyn and Pia, and just like, why did I have that in my head? And I know I've admitted this before and it's embarrassing to admit, but I used to think that, uh, black women got a pass, uh, for being fat. I thought it was okay in the black community to be fat.

So I had a lot to unlearn and relearn and it's embarrassing to admit, but that was where I was. And by being a part of this community, I've learned so much. I love to learn. I love to learn. I love, I, I see beauty in everything now. I didn't used to always be like that. I used to have a hard time seeing beauty in myself, but then now my world is filled with fat people and they're so also beautiful.

And I love every single one of them. And I love every kind of fat person and it just, I think it's so amazing and beautiful. And it helped for me to have community, which meant I got to fill my feed with fat bodies of all sizes and colors and sexualities and gender expressions. And it was like, oh, I love fat community.

And then, um, like it probably won't surprise you all to know that I've always kind of had my voice, but I found my voice for when I'm out in public and someone says something shitty to me. So now I'm always prepared. I have my comebacks, right. People say something to me at a restaurant. I just go, did you just call me fat?

Like really loud. So the whole restaurant hears me and then I feel so great now, but I couldn't have done that before. The people that I've met in fat liberation and fat acceptance world, it's just. It's amazing to me, Chrystal. I think you're not really not unique in that understanding, um, or assumption, misunderstanding or assumption about the ease with which fat black women move through the world.

And, you know, I think reading Joy's book that you recommended is a great place for people to get some sense of like the difference between yes, we have some cultural differences around body shape. We across the world, EV cultures have different ideals, right? The export of American media shifts that in a lot of places, but that's a whole other complicated issue around capitalism and America.

Um, but we still have, you know, cultural ideals that can be different. They are impacted by mainstream media. They are shaped by generational differences and they are also, and regional differences in all kinds of things. But also they don't mean that we don't have anything. Difficult to face as fat women.

When we are women of color black women in particular, you know, that assumption that you're talking about Chrystal happens all the time because we see fat black celebrities are like, everybody loves Lizzo. So it must be easier for fat black women, but like Lizzo takes all these hits that other people don't date take and you know, all of that stuff.

So it's, it's just an oversimplification to say one group has it easier than another group, right? And, and also even where we are culturally protected by our own, you know, our own cultural identities, whatever they may be. We still have to work in the mainstream world. We still have to interact with, you still have to go to the bank.

You still have to go to the doctor. You know, most of us don't get to do that only within our, you know, American racial communities. You know, we in fact have to go out and do that in a racialized world where there might be even more negative stereotypes of fat black women than there are of other fat women because of our welfare queen nonsense in the us and things like that.

Right. And so, um, so it's just really complicated. The other thing that people often say, um, still is that fat, like anti-fat is the last acceptable form of, of P. And you like, you can only say that if anti-fat is the only prejudice you are experiencing, if you have any other way in which you are part of an oppress group, it is very clear to you that there are still active other kinds of oppression.

Um, but, but one of the reasons that people say that is because of the fact that there are legal protections against some, or at least legal punishments against some other kinds of discrimination in ways that there are not about body shape and size. So it's very limited across the globe, where there are places where anti-fat is prohibited by law in the way that in theory, at least way supremacy is prevented by law or gender discrimination is prevent like all those things that at least in theory are prevented by law and that we all know still exist and still happen.

And in some cases are still rampant anti-fat is, um, is unique. In, in that it is a, it is a place where those laws have not been developed. Um, there is more public support for the development of those laws. Um, at N we're doing a lot of work around strategizing about where the places are that we should first pursue those laws so that we can have those wins.

So that we can then, you know, pursue them in even wider and grander ways. Um, but right now there are seven cities in the United States. Um, and one state, which is the state of Michigan, um, in Washington anti-fat is prohibited as part of disability law. There's a lot of debate about whether fat people are automatically disab disabled just by being fat or whether those kinds of laws should be separate.

But the fact is in Washington, Their Supreme court decided it is, it is the same thing. And so you, um, you have some protections in Washington in that way, but you know, there's pending law in Massachusetts. Um, that's moving along. There's, um, there's laws that have been, you know, legislation that has been introduced in New York and in New York city, in both the state and the city that's moving along.

There's something new that was recently, um, introduced in New Jersey. So like it's coming the day is coming where, um, people can have whatever cultural attitudes they wanna have about fat people, but they're not gonna be able to just, um, you know, apply them however they want to with no consequences. And that is gonna be a huge change.

Sydneyey, did you have something to add? Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that I fell out left. And when you said about. Black women, black fat, fat women get in a pass because you are not alone. There are black women who think that black women get a pass. I was one of them for quite a long time until I started moving more into the world and seeing, oh no, pass for me.

Oh, that's a shame. Why not? You know, so you're not alone in that. That's why I laugh so hard cuz it's it is that pervasive. It really is. I was just thinking, you know, the, um, Tigress was talking a little bit about media and for me it was always seen as there's nothing sexualized in media about fat black women.

You're like the quote unquote mom, you know that everybody, you know, just kind you're, you're seen as maternal, not as sexual beings. And um, and then, you know, that like kind of translated to me thinking about like, well, wow, no, no fat people are really portrayed as sexy in movies and. No, you know, and that just really started to okay.

You know, and my lens got a little bit bigger and I started to think like, okay, this is something where. There's nothing really that shows sexuality, uh, unless it was you're protesting and you are, you know, openly queer or, you know, and doing something like for pride or something like that, it was just not seen as sexual beings.

And I love that that's starting to change and that this movement is starting to help people recognize you can be fat. You can be any color, you can be any sexuality, you can be any gender or non-gender and you can display your sexuality in a way that, um, I think is just gonna, as the movement continues, just continue to grow and, and make incredible strides.

I'm so excited for. The younger generation coming about and getting these things that I never got, you know, are, are never even considered at their age, which is awesome. Yeah. One of the people that I loved was seeing Reta on, uh, parks and rec. Oh yeah, yeah. That Donna Meel, that was a major revelatory moment for so many fat women.

We're like, yeah, that's me. I feel represented cuz I'm sexual being I'm fat and I'm shameless about my sexuality and my, and, and my sexiness and my fatness. And I own every inch of this. That was awesome. So to see that on television was fabulous and I can't wait to see more what we want for fat people like, and this is true for fat black women, fat black women do have a little bit more visibility and entertainment than they do in, and also in politics.

When you look at somebody like Stacy Abrams, but I, um, I wanna keep talking about the sex and this is the sex show. Um, like when we think about how fatness and sexuality is connected, Sometimes fat women are over sexualized, right? Um, fat women and fems, like, you know, well, we love fat girls cuz they got big booties or they got big titties or big, they got, you know, whatever.

Right. And it's objectification. Um, versus when it's like, you know, self-directed when it's, you know, like your sexuality, you being in control of your sexual image and your sexual identity and um,  and so like what, and what we want for fat people in terms of representation in the media is for our full stories to be shown, we exist as tropes and there are more fat black women tropes than there are, because there's the gospel singer and there's the maid and there's the sassy mom and there's the sassy best friend.

And there's this, you know, like there's, you know, and there is often the sassy boy, crazy fat girl who is kind of a joke that she's chasing all these guys, cuz who would really want her, but then maybe there's one guy that wants her. So she gets a love story, right? Those are tropes. There are more fat tropes that involve black women than there are some other, I, I, you know, identity categories or like curvy Latinas, like on the border of being fat or whatever.

Like, but those are also like, we don't wanna be tropes and we don't wanna have only one of us so that when we look at red.  whatever Retta is. That's what we're all supposed to be. Right. Because she's the only one, right. We want to have, how are we 60%? How are fat people, 60% of the us population and 1% of the representation in media, especially entertainment, media, right?

So we should be able to see ourselves on television in places that are not stereotypes or diet hats. Right. And so that's what we love to see is when we start getting that that's part of liberation being able to just be, not be the fat character, they're the fat character to us. Cuz we looking for some fat heroes for ourself.

But like, is that their role on the show, the fat character or is there a role, the, whatever they are. I, I love. There's a character on Keenan Thomas's, uh, uh, sitcom, you know, and she just works at the TV show like everybody else. Yeah. She's not the fat person at the TV show. She just, you know, she's the funny person at the TV show who happens to be fat.

So rare. Yeah. So rare, still so rare. Self-created media has helped us a lot with being able to envision ourselves in ways that we couldn't before, because especially if you don't live in a place where there is fat liberation community or fat activist groups, or even fat social life like PW parties or things like if you don't live in a place where those things exist, social media has allowed us to connect with people.

And, and now, especially since the pandemic virtual events have allowed us to connect with people in ways where like, we get to see things that we don't see in mainstream media. And then that, that reminds us of like, oh, we could be asking to see that in mainstream media though. Right. We can show up with our, you know, we can show up with our dollars and we can show up with our likes and our retweets and like all the tools we have in the toolbox to say, we wanna see more of this.

No, we want to see so much more of this. And so like, that's part of why body positivity blew up in the early two thousands is because people could create their own media. They could, oh, you don't want to sign me to a modeling agency. That's okay. I'll take pictures of myself. Right. And I will put them out in the world.

You know, you don't think that I can be on your show. I'll produce a web show like that kind of ability to create our own media is a huge part of visibility for fat people. And visibility is activism. While we're on this topic. I, I did kind of put a pin in the legislation kind of part, part of that NASA is so great at, but while we're on this topic, I did post this question on my curvy girl page on Facebook, which has like a half a million followers.

And I said, what has fat liberation or fat substance done for you? How's it changed your life so far. And lots of people pitched in, you know, helped my mental health, gave me more confidence in myself and my body, um, helped me to, to, to be better at dating and not worrying about my body, blah, blah, blah, but a lot of people.

And by the way, this is, you know, people are all over the world on my page. They said they don't have any fat liberation where they are. They don't have any fat acceptance. What is fat acceptance? They don't, they don't know about it yet. So I know you have some great resources because you are well, you are the queen in my mind of the fat liberation movement.

And, um, you just you're so plugged in everywhere. So maybe you could tell some of our listeners where if they're in some strange, tiny little Berg, where could they find fat acceptance, maybe. Well, the good thing about being a Royal of, you know, a, a king, a queen, a Monarch, a whatever in fat liberation movement is that there are many of us, right?

It's not, I'm not, I don't rule some land of exclusive fatty. Like there's all kinds of different ways to do fat liberation. NAAFA is not for everybody NAAFA. Like we want to our doors to be open for everybody. But for some people like there's another style of organization that's gonna be better. Or they don't like the sound of my voice.

So they're not coming to our webinars or, you know, they, um, they have a history with NAAFA that they don't wanna unpack. So they're gonna be someplace else. Um, there's all kinds of reasons why we not, might not be the right organization for you, but there are lots of fat organizations and lots of them are doing virtual things.

So you can access them from wherever you are in the world. Um, the association for size diversity and health does a lot of things that are around. D size diversity and health, um, health and wellness, um, uh, taking on issues around, healthism thinking about, you know, health at every size. They're the trademark holders of that term.

Um, fat rose is a much more radical fat organization that does lots of virtual organizing and virtual community building. Um, no lose is an organization that started as a fat lesbian organization and is now a queer centered fat organization. You know, there's, there's all. Um, and I don't, you know, there's all kinds of local groups that are doing things.

There are fashion groups that are doing things. There are arts groups that, you know, I came of age as a fat activist in the bay area, in the, in the Oakland and San Francisco area. So there were clubs like mine, my club club wasn't the only one mine was black centered in a way that the other ones were not.

But, but, you know, but it wasn't the only one for fat folks. And, um, but you know, there were fat dancers and I mean, all kinds of dancers, there were fat burlesque dancers. There were fat belly dancers. There were fat jazz dancers, hip hop dancers, all of those things. And there's, um, community that grew up around those dance and performance spaces too.

That was really powerful. Um, if you're in or near the bay area, I cannot say enough good things about big moves. The, the dance troop that organizes a lot of things and does a lot of work with all those dancers in other areas. Um, but also like, well, first of all, You don't have to have a group, right. Part of developing a fat liberation mindset is just you asking the questions, you doing, the learning, you pushing back on the barriers, but it is wonderful to have support in doing that.

There are all kinds of Facebook groups and, um, what's that other thing that discord and, you know, tos and there's all kinds of stuff available so that you can access fat liberation. Even if you don't have people in your physical area. Um, I wanna give a shout out to Micra Masada homes who does, um, a Roundup every few weeks of like fat events all over the us and sometimes including global events.

So we'll put that in the show notes, how you can find, um, my cross it's called Westminster flabby, and it's just like a newsletter of events. And then you can see if there is something closer to you than you thought there was. Um, and if there's not, you can start something. You know, I came out here. I, I, I, like I said, I, I came of age in the bay area, fat community.

And then I moved, um, back to my hometown outside of Phoenix and is no nothing around here. Like, I mean, there's plus size stuff, but there's plus size stuff and there's amazing. Plus size fashion stuff, especially again, coming from black women in the Phoenix community, there's some really great plus size fashion stuff.

It doesn't have that politic behind it, that fat liberation events have. Um, and, um, and same thing with nightlife. There have been some great nightlife events for plus size folks in the Phoenix area, but they don't generally have that same politic. And so, um, I, co-founded a group here with, um, with my friend, Nikki from red street girl blog.

Um, and we, you know, and we hosted a FA fashion swap, um, you know, that. Started by, you know, two fat women of color, you know, like we just, there wasn't a thing. So we made a thing like, that sounds easier said than done, but there are lots of people who will help you do it. Absolutely. That's all great advice.

And I will definitely put my, uh, Westminster flabby in the show notes because it is a great newsletter. They have a Facebook page if they have an actual, like email sign up, but they have a Facebook page and I think they also share things on Instagram. Okay, cool. Yeah. We'll definitely include all that in the show notes.

Thank you, tigers. That's super helpful. Yeah, I agree. Just, you know, if you wanna do something, do it. If you want something to exist, just make it happen. Sometimes it's sometimes it just be like yourself, your just yourself or one other person, then you never know.  I can grow from that. Um, and I, and I wanna acknowledge, like, I know that can be frustrating, right?

Cause that that's, that's what they tell us about clothes. Right? Well, if they don't make clothes for you learn to make your own clothes, like sometimes you just wanna be in the world and have some shit you didn't have to make and invent and treat. But when it comes to building community that does actually take participation.

Does you know? And so if you can't just walk or, or roll or move into a com a physical community space, um, that already. Then there definitely are already existing spaces online for, um, but I do, I do wanna acknowledge that. Like sometimes we just, sometimes that is part of what we're missing is being able to just like, you know, thin people don't have to create a new space in order to be able to go to a, a dance party and know that they're not gonna be the only thin person there.

Right. So I do wanna acknowledge that, that, you know, that can be frustrating and that can be hard, but I just wanna say that, you know, if you have the spoons to do it right, or you can connect with other people who have the bandwidth to do it, um, it is a worthwhile investment and that there are people out there.

People like me who've, you know, started events or whatever, who will help you, who will give you some tips. What about we have a question. How has fat liberation and fat acceptance helped your either romantic or sex life? Has it, has it at all? Has it not had any effect? Something good. Come from it for you.

MERF what about you? Uh, it changed my life. My fat liberation really changed my life. I think it, um, not only opened my worldview, but it also opened, um, internally what I feel like I was capable of. And so, um, when it comes to my sexuality and, and really enjoying myself, it took a lot to get there and all the different things that I talked about at the beginning and everything that we've all discussed and the things that you've all shared, those things built myself, confidence, they built, um, a sense of, I I'm important and I'm worthy and I can be myself and all of that translated into me really owning who I am.

And that's, there's nothing sexier than that. Then I go into the bedroom with complete confidence because I feel good about who I. And that's what, that's what it did for me. Love it. Love it. Love it. Thank you. Murr. What about you Sydney dating romance sex.  uhoh put your seat belts on y'all.

Well, um, yeah, absolutely. It's made a huge difference in my life. And um, it, again, going back to when I, I made this transition from being a straight size person, a Slimer person to a fat person, um, in like a year, um, that there, I had to do some mental acrobatics man to get my mind, right. Like here I was this hot body before, oh my God, am I still a hot body?

Am I still attractive? Is anybody gonna want me? And the answer was hell yes, they did. Chandler. I got more attention fat than I ever did. Skinny. I am not playing. It blew me away. I was like, well, oh, Oh, who is, oh, how about, OK. How about that? My dad's card was full and it stayed full and it is full hell I'm polyamorous.

In fact, which should say something to the fat community out there. Yes. You can date find a honey and find more than one. They are out there and they are looking for you. I'm just saying like, this is a real thing. I, you know, sure. You're gonna have to make some adjustments sexually, you know, there's certain positions that are gonna be a little more favorable than others, but damnit hell yeah.

Get your ass out there and see the people, meet the people and let 'em meet you. I promise you, they looking for you. Amen. And also, um, what I like to say about the positions and stuff like that, where there's a will, there's a way. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Tyers, what about you dating romance sex well, and where there's a will.

There's a way, but also there are resources to teach you some of the ways, right? I, when I was in my, I think when I was, I think it was in my early twenties, when I first discovered Hannah Blan had a, a book called, um, a big, big love, I think it's called. And it includes like practical tips for how you maneuver around different positions, if you have different sizes and shapes of bodies.

And like, I, you know, I remember the first, there was this, um, SU bright, had a erotic book series called erotica, and it was all erotic stories written by and for women. And in one of those books, there was a story about a plus size woman. And I. Had not imagined such adventures for plus size women, you know, and like, I, you know, I grew up in a family where on one side of my family, um, I had a fat aunt who was, um, who was just very steeped in diet culture and, and, you know, just thought she was, you know, she was not, um, empowered as a fat woman.

Then on the other side, I had these FA fat aunts who still had some diet culture stuff, but they also had honey, I'm gonna put this dress on my curves and go get me a man. Right. And so I saw both of those things and, um, but you know, but like I never, you know, I, wasn't gonna ask aunt Linda about how to hold up her leg, you know, like, but there are things like you can do that, right.

Is she, is she, I, I might have to ask aunt Linda that next I see. But. But you, but there are resources for that, or like, you know, Chrystal going to your store when you had your brick and mortar store and seeing like wedges that are meant to help people with different positions or, or straps, or, you know, I know they had a, a, um, I didn't know, harnesses came in plus size if you wanted to try that kind of thing.

So like all of the things that you think you might not be able to do because of your size part of being in fat community is learning where those resources, we do a lot of resource sharing. So where do you get a harness or where do you get a wedge or where do girl, how to do get your leg up like that?

Or, you know, whatever the things are. Right. And, um, and so just being exposed to other folks who have that confidence and, you know, and folks in, we don't always know what to do in traditional fat activism with folks in nightlife and especially with folks in the adult industry, but those are some of the areas of highest fat visibil.

For, for fat people and for the rest of the world, right? So whatever you think of porn, you can see fat bodies having sex in porn. It's not always the depiction we want, but at least it's there. Right? And we know that the statistics is people keep quoting these statistics about how many, like the highest searches on, you know, porn websites are for fat people.

There's pros and cons to that. Cuz some of that is fetishizing and exploitive and whatever. Um, it's also people making a living in their fat bodies. Um, people who, you know, may not be able to make a living in other jobs in their fat bodies. And that's O often part of sex work dynamics, but it's also, you, you can see pleasure, right?

You can see pleasure in bodies that look like yours and um, and you know, and you can.  and we exist in those spaces. There are other places, you know, again, especially in the media where it feels like we don't exist. So just being able to get to see that. And in fact, community being able to get, to see couples long term couples of all, um, sexual orientations, you know, who've been together romantically, involves sexually involved.

You know, like Sydney said, maybe it's a couple and a spare. Maybe it's a throuple, maybe it's what, like, there's, there's a lot to go around in a lot of different kinds of ways. And you can find your way and you can see examples of that somewhere in that community. For fat people in ways that you don't see those examples, if you're not in fat community and you can see that they're the norm, they're not the exception.

They're the norm. All, you know, and again, like I wanna acknowledge there are, there is shit that is harder about dating as a fat person. Yes. There is. You know, there are people, you know, you there's, you don't see a lot of, like, you're not gonna be on Tinder probably, and see five pro profiles in a row that say no thin chicks.

Right. So like there's hard, there's stuff that's triggering, you know, there's, there's stuff that's complicated. Um, but it's also like it's available to you more than you might think it is. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's amazing. Um, and like Sydney said, you know, if you I'm only ever home alone on a Saturday night, because I want to, and I say this all the time on the show, I, I, I'm always, I guess, pleasantly surprised to find mostly how, how many people are attracted to.

Just another human and they don't really care about that package. Um, most people fall in love with people, not other body. And, um, of course I know there's this percentage of people who are only gonna date other people that, you know, go to Pilates every day of the week or whatever. That's fine. They can all go fuck each other, but most people are gonna date somebody or have sex with somebody because they're attracted to the person and the personality, not the shell.

Or are you gonna say something tigers? Yeah. There's way more people who are not as caught up about the specificity of the body who have a broader sense of what is attractive than what we are shown in mainstream media. There definitely are people who are predominantly fat attracted. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Just like there are people who are only gonna date the Pilates person. There are, you know, and the thin Pilates person, what they think a Pilates person looks like, cuz we all know that there are fat people who exercise and are still fat, but like there, yes, there are people who are only gonna date the Pilates people.

There also are people who are only gonna date the fat girl or only gonna date the fat guy. In fact, we often think that that, that kind of fat attraction is only about men who are attracted like CIS men who are attracted to CIS women. And that's not true at all. It goes across all kinds of thoughts. Like there are a lot of people who like, there's a big boy movement happening on TikTok.

Get in on that if you haven't seen that. But um, but also we just like, we, um, you know, I just wanna say something. If you have listeners who are cisgender men who are attracted to cisgender women, cuz this is a dynamic that I see often in that direction specifically, it is not good enough to approach us with I like big girls and think that's all you have to do to impress us.

If you like. I like big girls is not a personality. Okay. So I I'm glad you like big girls. And if that's all you had to say, you just keep on walking because I already know that people liked you didn't inform me of anything new that might work with people who are brand new to this  but anybody that's a little bit seasoned needs more than that from you.

Um, you know, there are men who go after big women. Who, because they think we're the low hanging fruit, or we're the least resistant, or we're the most desperate and, you know, on an individual level that works sometimes for real. Um, but that ain't all of us and you need to get it together. So just that note for that particular population of your listeners, cuz I can't speak to how that shows up in other sexual orientation groups or you know, types of relationships or whatever.

But, um, but a lot of straight CIS men are raggedy when it comes to that and they need to stop being raggedy because we are in higher demand than you think we are.  um, and so you, you get guys to do better. You gotta do better. And you know, I'm not like I am a fat liberation. One thing I will say, and we see this a lot in fat liberation spaces where especially CIS dudes, CIS straight dudes will show up as though that's a dating space.

Please be clear about what is a dating space and what is not. I CA if I came here to talk about, you know, I'm trying to get people to sign this petition, to get this law enacted and you over here trying to get my phone number. I don't wanna hear it. You wanna help me get some more signatures on this petition?

Let's do that. So if you are only four big girls, when you are for big butts or when you are only for big girls, when you are for who you think you're taking to bed after the club, or when you're only for big, like when you're only for us in those kinds of. I don't need you. I need more cisgender straight men to sign up for the actual movement.

Cause all the fun times and sexy times and romantic times are important. And again, if I have all of that and then when I go out the door, I'm discriminated against and you don't give any damns, then you're not here for me. Yeah. So stop saying you love big girls. Don't you like food, right? Yeah. Go ahead.

Sydney. The, and you know what, in my experience, those types of, uh, CIS straight men tend to be also the ones that when, uh, they are rebuffed in spaces that they shouldn't have been hidden on us in the first place. They're the first one to talk about fat bitch fat bitch. Exactly. The first one, they, the first one starting up with that and I'm like, that's all you got is fat bitch, baby.

I came in here with fat bitch. I thought you were gonna throw some iron on me after that. You didn't keep walking. Like I was a fat bitch with a t-shirt you were gonna put on the fat bitch. T-shirt when you thought you could get something from it, but now you can't. All right. Yeah. Mm-hmm  thank you for showing me who you are now.

See yourself out. Yeah, no doubt. You dodged the bullet. It's always fat bitch though. They're they're I always to say, trying so hard to get into your lane, Bryan. So the minute you say no, thank you. Fat bitch. Like really seriously, right? Like, let's go back to this. The, the, the trail of our, our messaging, please, baby, please, baby, please.

Baby fat bitch. I'm like what happened? You were so attracted a second ago. It's so tired. Exactly. So tired, so tired. And you know, and I, like I said, you know, I can't speak for folks in other communities. I've never, I don't hear the same things from my queer friends about that turn, that particular kind of turn.

Um, and, um, but you know, but queer folks who are listening, definitely let me know if you, I'm sure you got your stories too. Look, there's anti-fat in every community and it shows up in different communities in different ways. That is true also of dating communities, poly community, kink, communities, nightlife, community, all of the communities.

Right. Um, and it even is sometimes true in fat liberation spaces where people are still working through their own internalized shit. And they, you know, it's, this is supposed to be a fat liberation space and somebody still thinks they're better because they're the smaller one or they're, you know, we like, at least I'm not that fat or they still have like Chrystal talked about earlier in the show, the sort of good fatty, bad fatty kind of dynamics or healthism or whatever.

And like, you know, we have to. Attentive to that, even in fat liberation spaces cause anti-fat is pervasive. And so it worms its way into literally every part of the. You know, and if you can keep it out, you know, if you can keep it out of your bedroom yay. Right. And you keep it out of your living room and keep it out of the, the employee break room and keep it outta the waiting room at the hosp all the, you know, all of, all of the spaces.

Right. But it that's active work sometimes. You know, sometimes we have to, we have to really be, you know, setting boundaries. We have to give, you know, a little bit of grace for people who are new to this, and haven't learned the things yet, but not so much grace that they're creating unsafe spaces or that they're creating, you know, triggering and trauma for people, you know?

And, and it's a really, it's a really difficult balance. Um, you know, the, this fat, fat folks, lot of fat folks living in the sunken place and sometimes fat people be the first ones to show up, to throw the other fat people under the bus. And we have to, you know, we have to, we have to work through all that complicated stuff.

Um, You know, but I'm so glad that this show exists, exists just for the fun stuff. Right. And the sexy, you know, and, um, because we need that, we need spaces. Like, you know, we need spaces that are dedicated to all these different pieces and ways of being and, um, and you know, for many of us. Sexuality is part of that.

Um, and, and so, um, you know, and for, and for folks, for whom it is not, they need spaces, you know, we need a fat asexual podcast, then they have some place to talk and folks to listen to them. And the rest of us need to listen to it so that we know each other's lives that way. Right. Um, but I'm, um, I'm just really grateful that y'all do what you do.

I someday I'm gonna have a high enough sex life to come on. One of the sexy episodes, you know, fat live episodes. But, um, for right now, I'm glad the rest of the sexy episodes are out there. So y'all y'all can keep reminding me. So, but it, we're kind of, you know, running a little bit long, but I do wanna hear from each of you, like, what do you hope to see in the future for fat liberation?

Just like, try to think of something that doesn't, you know, quick and, um, that's like we can put our hands around it. Maybe like, I would love to see. And I love that. And I said, I was gonna put a pin in this. I love that NASA works and helps people with their legislation to make sure that like in San Francisco, I believe, uh, being fat is a protected class.

Is that correct? Tigress? Uh, it's part of the human rights is part of the, the, the human rights ordinance in San Francisco. Yeah. So I'd like to see more of that. So for me, for fat liberation, I hope to see more legislation that makes it so that people are not allowed to pay us less, treat us like shit, make sure that, you know, we get taken care of with our chairs and we get paid.

You know, fairly and all that kind of stuff. So that's one thing I can think of that I can put my hands around. I think maybe I can even give a little help too. So how about you, mark? Do you have any ideas for us? What do you wanna see in the future from fat liberation? I kind of already mentioned it, but I just, I want the next generation to start figuring this stuff out early.

You know, I, I, I was in my late twenties, early thirties, figuring this stuff out and to see, you know, a gen zer, um, having so many different lenses to be exposed to of just different types of bodies and expressiveness and all those kind of things. I'm just hopeful that that changes the world that we move towards because they'll have a new voice and see things from a totally different perspective.

If we make it through the next two years, as far as like the world imploding and everything I am. So I have so much hope as those that generation. Oh, what? Ah, they love those. I love them. It's amazing. They're just so fucking openhearted. And I know I can't, they're not a monolith. I can't save all of them, but the people I've been exposed to, I'm like, oh, I can't wait until they're in charge.

This is the world I wanna live in. And, but I guess I've gotta get through the next two years. So what about you, Sidney, you know, all of the same things that y'all brought up, um, are things that I genuinely look forward to in the future. Um, but more immediately, I would just be thrilled if like, you know, I can go to the doctor's office and there's no freaking arms on a chair.

Like, and I have said this repeatedly, I've written to my particular, um, medical provider and said, Hey look, you, you do realize that armless chairs are actually cheaper. So if you wanna save some money. And make it so that everybody can sit down. Here's a little free tip. So I just simple stuff, just really simple stuff like that.

Um, I would love to see just that happen. I love to see all the bigger stuff. Absolutely. That would throw me no end. Um, I hope I'm around to see it. Me too, but armless chairs would be wonderful. I wanna say too, cuz I used to say this all the time. Just buy some fucking armless chairs. They're they're cheaper, but I guess there are some people that do need arms on their chairs.

So we have to be careful to say, could we have both right? Because we don't. I think especially people have different disabilities and things that I see tigers shaking her head. So maybe there's, I don't know what the answer is, why, but I know some people do need them. So let's, let's just say we can, we have a little of everything so we can all fit and thin people do not sit in the fucking wide butt chairs in the pharmacy.

Okay. Get your own chair. Your small chairs. What about tigers? Amen. Okay. Thank you. I mean, you sit, sit there when nobody needs it, but then get up when you see that somebody does it's. Yeah. Um, I, um, you know, I think that the legislation is really important because it provides some protections, but we all know, you know, as we talked about with other kinds of legislation that exists, it's not always preventative.

Um, so I wanna see an increase in the amount of legislative protections for us as a community because, um, Because I want there to be consequences for people who discriminate against us. And also because I want there to be people who, um, then learn not to discriminate against us, whether they like us or not just because they don't want the consequences.

Right. So I want that, I also know that legislation can, um, you know, there's a, it is sort of chicken and egg circular pattern of where legislation drives social change and where social change drives legislation. And I think we're nearing that tipping point around fatness. Um, you know, it's this sort of like, um, You know, like we can pass same sex marriage and, and then same sex marriage can be politically under attack, but the culture has shifted because it was passed in the first place.

So the political attack is not as easy, right. It's still a fight and we have to fight it cuz we have to protect that for people. But so I want the same thing for us, for us to have, you know, to see as those legislative protections come to be a social attitude shift. Um, and then in terms of practical things, I want the medical establishment to stop using B.

Um, I want us to, um, to treat fat people individually when it comes to healthcare instead of as a number. And, um, and I think that our, our colleagues at Asda, the association for size diversity and health are gonna be, you know, doing a lot of work around that. Um, and I see lots of individual activists and I think, uh, one of you mentioned Reagan earlier, like re Chasta does a lot of work around health stuff.

A lot of people are, are talking about the UK fat doctor. Like lots of people are talking about what all the flaws in BMI are, um, and why we just shouldn't be using it as a measure of health for anybody is detrimental to fat people's health. And it gives a false sense of security to people who are smaller about their health when they, you know, that things get missed because they're only looking for it in a fat person.

So it's just, it's bad for everybody. So if I, if I had like a magic wand thing that I could do, I might do that one first, um, But, um, but hopefully, you know, hopefully continuing to work on the legislative rights impacts all of that. Sure. Thank you. That's so true. I really, yeah. You guys are getting me off the CLEP, cuz I just so appreciate all of you so much and I appreciate all the work that y'all do individually.

And I appreciate all the work that NAAFA does and tyres you've been, you know, relentless since 2008 and um, I'm I still consider myself a newbie to this fat liberation movement and I still have a lot to learn. And um, anyway, I'm just so grateful that we could have this discussion that you were available, tyres and Sydney and Merf and yes, I think if we all have this mindset, we're gonna make these changes.

I wanna get involved with the legislation stuff. I wanna get involved with all of it because it's just time and I think you're right. It's time for the culture to shift. It's just time it's past time. Well, I can tell you, um, you know, your listeners who are in Massachusetts, in New York, in New Jersey, where there's already stuff in the works to keep an eye out for action alerts from NAAFA and from other fat organizations around like when it's time to contact your representatives to help get those bills and that legislation passed, um, and then stay tuned, cuz we are, like I said, we are in discussions and strategy and um, you know, assessment around like where's the place that's ripe next for pursuing this.

So just, yeah, just stay tuned for ways that ways that you can get involved. So Madam chair, one last thing, a piece of business. Could you let listeners know how they could possibly sign up for the NAAFA new.  yes. If you go to the NAAFA website, which is N AA, a.org, you find all kinds of information. You can find our fat liberation month calendar.

So you can see other events that we are hosting virtual events and learnings and things you can read and listen to and do, um, You can also, um, you can also find the newsletter sign up there. We do a monthly newsletter. That's free. Many of the things that are featured in our newsletter are also already featured on our website under our community voices blog.

So there's lots of great stuff, um, at the NAAFA website. And then of course you can also follow us on social media. We are official on, um, most of your favorite social media sites. We're not super active yet on TikTok, but we're gonna get there. And we have a millennial board member at NAAFA. So we are, is run by a 12 person.

all volunteer board. None of us are paid for our labor in doing this work. Um, and right now we have board members from 23 to 75 years of age. We have the most racially diverse board in the history of the organization, the most broadly LGBTQ board. Um, and, um, I think over, over half of our board members identify as queer in one way or another.

And, um, and many of us living with, you know, chronic pain disabilities, some other kind of lens of that type to be bringing all of that into the work that we do. So I'm super proud of my colleagues on the NAAFA board. We go to the website, please click the board. So you can see everybody that is on our board, um, and know all the great work that they are doing too, because I am the most public face of NAAFA, but I am not all of NAAFA right tigers.

The new artwork is amazing. Yeah, that, um, that liberation artwork was created by, um, bats, Langley. You can find bats also on all your favorite socials, and he's an amazing children's book. Um, illustrator. He has a brand new book out about, he's got this character called Goggle. There's a Valentine's book.

And then the Halloween book is out already for this year. So I love bats and his work so much. Um, we're actually recording this on bat's birthday. So happy belated birthday, by the time you hear bats. Um, but we're super excited about, we're super excited about that artwork for this year and we consider it to fat community.

Um, anyone is welcome to share it, to use it on their social media. Um, of course it belongs to NAAFA and bats. So please don't use it for other things. Like don't be on the time, like fat liberation of your own, okay. People. But, um, but please do share it widely on social media. You can see it on NA's, uh, Instagram and Facebook and you can share it from there.

It's amazing. So, thank you everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you to bats. Happy birthday bats. Love it. Love the love, the artwork. All right. Goodnight, everybody. Thank you so much. See you later, alligator. Well, after a while, crocodile. Bye. Bye butterfly. Audio hippos. . So where do you find your favorite fatties?

We'll check out big, sexy chat.com. You can find our podcast on any major streaming service. Just remember to like subscribe and review. You can find us at big, sexy chat on Facebook and Insta and at big sexy chat pod on Twitter, you can find me mur at Merfy girl review on Twitter and at Merfy girl adventures on Instagram, Chrystal tell 'em where they can find you.

Sure they can find me on Twitter at bliss connection, and they can find me on Facebook as KBY girl eat. Download us every other Sunday and listen, whenever you want.